Re: (PM) 3.8b17 - SlIp (fwd)

Karl Denninger (karl@Mcs.Net)
Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:24:41 -0500

On Wed, Jul 01, 1998 at 12:52:21PM -0700, MegaZone wrote:
> Once upon a time Paul Popper shaped the electrons to say...
> >At 05:27 PM 6/30/98 , Ralf Sauther wrote:
> >>... "it will be ready when it is ready" is complete bullshit. ...
> >Yes, bullshit and also kind of ass-covering... Still, it was good to see
>
> I explained it already. They can give a date. What does that mean? Jack
> shit is what it means. If it isn't reeady by the date, then they miss the
> date. Period. That happened with the date they gave for the first V.90
> beta.
>
> If it is ready before the date, they'll release it early. So the date is
> again meaningless. In other words - it will be ready when it is ready.
>
> Maybe they should come out and say "December 1st, 1998" as the expected
> date just to shut everyone up. Then they can ship it months early and brag
> about how they but the ship date. People so insistent on dates would
> probably eat it up.
>
> Dates are for small-minded schedule freaks who need a security blanket,
> or are too blind to realize they are being handed a bill of goods which
> means nothing in concrete terms. I'm trying to think of one, but I can't
> think of a product date announcement which really meant anything...

Small-minded schedule freaks eh?

Project management, appropriate and reasonable expectations, development
schedules which are based on reality and a full understanding of the
requirements, and formal structure are all then for small-minded schedule
freaks as well.

I'm sorry, Megazone, but you're just plain wrong here.

I have done this job in a very much commercial environment.

Appropriate, proper management of resources, scheduling, compartmentalization,
design, review and FINALLY coding and testing solve these problems.

In the Internet industry, NONE OF THESE basic principles of sound business
operation and software development are frequently honored, adhered to, or
even attempted to be practiced.

As someone who has made his living doing precisely this for the last 15
years, I think I am qualified to speak on this point. I have managed many
projects where setting dates *and hitting them* with finished, functional
products was precisely what I was paid to do.

Seeing as though I was never fired for poor performance in those positions,
the products did get delivered on time, and they worked, and further, I am
not alone in these endeavors or successes, I have to say flat-out that it
is NOT impossible.

It does require that the "cowboy" mentality be divorced from the engineering
group, however, sometimes to be accomplished by the forceful separation of
employment for the people who can't manage to live and work with real
development schedules, rules for documentation and compartmentalization,
and review of progress and design.

--

-- 
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